Discussion:
Need bending help ..
(too old to reply)
Mike_in_SD
2007-02-28 19:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this

www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3

the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.

here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..

btw .. I am assuming that is the note the original player is playing
(3 hole bent big time)

www.mikeamick.com/sick_double_bend.mp3

I think this is a skill I obviously have to learn to
really play the harp and would appreciate any advice
(besides quit playing .. ahahah )



thanks
mike
Zoran
2007-02-28 20:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
btw .. I am assuming that is the note the original player is playing
(3 hole bent big time)
www.mikeamick.com/sick_double_bend.mp3
I think this is a skill I obviously have to learn to
really play the harp and would appreciate any advice
(besides quit playing .. ahahah )
The harp that guy play isn't from harp shop, this is regap or retuned harp
cause that you can't take sound like this guy play. Don't forced yourself
when you are bending, listen a bit Paul Butterffield way of play, nice and
easy but full of energy. He isn't play, Paul I mean with a strenght. Well,
Mike regap your harp, or buy some specially made from sombody who knows
tuning the harp.
Ralf K. Buschner
2007-03-01 01:23:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zoran
The harp that guy play isn't from harp shop, this is regap or retuned harp
cause that you can't take sound like this guy play.
Nope, the sound is from a standard harp like Marine Band, Marine Band de
Luxe or a Hering Vintage 1923, that means: with cover plates, which have
openings on the sides. I can reproduce that sound 1:1 on a Hering Vintage
1923.
It's a standard Richter tuning, F harmmonica in 2nd position (Song key is C)
and there's no need for retuning or such.

Seeya,
Ralf
milwaukee slim
2007-03-01 03:33:15 UTC
Permalink
Listen to the note he is playing he isn't holding the pitch like you
are trying to. He holds it a little then goes vibrato on the note and
it isn't as obvious the pitch is not dead true all the time the
vibrato hides it although he stay very true to pitch which is very
very hard to do. Also listen to the forth note he plays beside
vibrato he is playing a 34 combo. He also plays with a more open
mouth and throat and the sound is coming from deep in his chest and
gut not his mouth which makes the bend sound less dead (again not
easy). I agree with Robert the vibrato along with a more open throat
and diaphragm make this guy sound very good. Try blowing cold air on
you hand then try blowing hot air on you hand try to play more like
you are blowing hot air you tone will be better.

PS
I wish I could hit the note as clean as he can
Post by Ralf K. Buschner
Post by Zoran
The harp that guy play isn't from harp shop, this is regap or retuned harp
cause that you can't take sound like this guy play.
Nope, the sound is from a standard harp like Marine Band, Marine Band de
Luxe or a Hering Vintage 1923, that means: with cover plates, which have
openings on the sides. I can reproduce that sound 1:1 on a Hering Vintage
1923.
It's a standard Richter tuning, F harmmonica in 2nd position (Song key is C)
and there's no need for retuning or such.
Seeya,
Ralf
Robert Reynolds
2007-02-28 21:59:55 UTC
Permalink
I want to throw in my two cents worth on your question about bending,
but I also want to make it part of a general philosophy of playing and
sounding good.

I believe that the two most important elements of sounding like a good
musician are rhythm and good tone. More specifically, rhythm is first,
then good tone. I figured this out by listening to great musicians who
can stir the soul by playing only a few notes, or by playing the same
note several times. Even if you play the wrong note, it still sounds
good if the rhythm is on target. If you screw up the rhythm you sound
like an idiot.

Your rhythm sounds pretty good, but just remember that rule because some
day you'll be jamming with other musicians and your mind will go blank.
At that point you'll have to remember that instead of playing a super
cool lick you should try to stay in time.

The other main thing is good tone, and as far as I can tell the number
one element of good tone is vibrato, which makes the note sound as if
it's alive. Playing a note shouldn't just sound like a note. It should
sound like a voice. The blues solo you picked out is a great way to
develop your playing, but developing a good voice to your playing is
just as important.

Back to your question about bending a note on target... Somebody else
already suggested that you should make sure your harp is in good playing
condition, which is another whole subject. This is good advice, but I
think the most important thing is to practice hitting the note and
adding vibrato to change it from a sick note to a soulful voice. If you
ever get a chance, listen to Cristo Redemptor by Charlie Musselwhite.
(played in C on a Bb harp) The harp part has a line that goes up, then
it comes back down and holds on a long note with rich vibrato. This is
a bent note, and so far I'm just not a good enough musician to duplicate
it, held out for several counts, with soul. I'll know I'm a good
musician when I can hold out a note and it sounds like it's alive. So
far I sound good only when I'm playing fast and I get to move on to the
next note quickly.

The point of all of this is that I think your best bet is to practice
playing just that one note that gives you trouble. While the original
song is playing on your computer you just play that one note, bent to
the proper tone. You'll be able to tell if it's in tune or not because
it will sound either good or bad with the recording. Try playing it
once every other beat or so. Then try holding it out longer. When you
finally get to where you can hit it, try adding some character to it.
If you can do that, you'll be a better player than I am.
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
btw .. I am assuming that is the note the original player is playing
(3 hole bent big time)
www.mikeamick.com/sick_double_bend.mp3
I think this is a skill I obviously have to learn to
really play the harp and would appreciate any advice
(besides quit playing .. ahahah )
thanks
mike
RPM1
2007-03-01 02:18:59 UTC
Permalink
I want to throw in my two cents worth on your question about bending, but I
also want to make it part of a general philosophy of playing and sounding
good.
<snip very good advice>

Okay, I'm getting interested in this. The only F harp I have is a Hohner
"Hot Metal", but I'm getting closer to the desired note. If I get it I'll
post a sound byte.

Patrick
John Agosta
2007-03-01 05:15:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
btw .. I am assuming that is the note the original player is playing
(3 hole bent big time)
www.mikeamick.com/sick_double_bend.mp3
I think this is a skill I obviously have to learn to
really play the harp and would appreciate any advice
(besides quit playing .. ahahah )
Hi Mike. That is a fine F harp solo.
You did a good job, too, in playing it.
Listen to Robert's advice and work on the tremolo effects.
You're hitting the notes, just got to get the pizzaz part down.
With regard to the particular note in question, it appears to me
that it's a standard draw bend on #3 which is held for a bit and then
tremolo-ized.
(did I just invent a word?)
I'm having fun trying it here at home myself. Keep us posted on your
progress !

-lock
Mike_in_SD
2007-03-01 08:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Agosta
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
btw .. I am assuming that is the note the original player is playing
(3 hole bent big time)
www.mikeamick.com/sick_double_bend.mp3
Hi Mike. That is a fine F harp solo.
You did a good job, too, in playing it.
Listen to Robert's advice and work on the tremolo effects.
You're hitting the notes, just got to get the pizzaz part down.
With regard to the particular note in question, it appears to me
that it's a standard draw bend on #3 which is held for a bit and then
tremolo-ized.
(did I just invent a word?)
I'm having fun trying it here at home myself. Keep us posted on your
progress !
LOL .. you guys are nuts .. good nuts

I didnt notice the tremolo on that note .. but .. just went back and
I see what you mean .. let me try that.

Im glad everyone see's the talent in this little song .. I like it alot.

I will definately follow you guys advice .. there is no substitute
for practice. the cool air hot air thing is interesting

anyways .. It would really be cool to hear some sound bytes of
other guys trying this song ..

I cant thank you guys enough
mike
milwaukee slim
2007-03-01 13:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Hey I agree with John you did a pretty good job. The other thing that
he is doing is on the notes he starts bent and then brings to pitch
and adds vibrato he is doing it a little slower to pitch and a little
smoother. And when he comes down from the 34 to the 2 draw he bends
the 3 hole slowly down before he drops to the 2 bend.

Good Luck

Slim

PS send me a sound clip after a little practice on the tone and
expression things I bet it will sound a lot sweeter. I think it is
those things that make his solo sound great.
Post by Mike_in_SD
Post by John Agosta
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
btw .. I am assuming that is the note the original player is playing
(3 hole bent big time)
www.mikeamick.com/sick_double_bend.mp3
Hi Mike. That is a fine F harp solo.
You did a good job, too, in playing it.
Listen to Robert's advice and work on the tremolo effects.
You're hitting the notes, just got to get the pizzaz part down.
With regard to the particular note in question, it appears to me
that it's a standard draw bend on #3 which is held for a bit and then
tremolo-ized.
(did I just invent a word?)
I'm having fun trying it here at home myself. Keep us posted on your
progress !
LOL .. you guys are nuts .. good nuts
I didnt notice the tremolo on that note .. but .. just went back and
I see what you mean .. let me try that.
Im glad everyone see's the talent in this little song .. I like it alot.
I will definately follow you guys advice .. there is no substitute
for practice. the cool air hot air thing is interesting
anyways .. It would really be cool to hear some sound bytes of
other guys trying this song ..
I cant thank you guys enough
mike
David Raleigh Arnold
2007-04-20 13:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
Maybe this is too obvious, but the *most* important thing is
to bear in mind that you shouldn't try to bring bent notes
up to the volume of the other notes, but you should reduce
the volume of the other notes to the level of the bent notes.
Doing otherwise can get to be expensive. daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html :::: You can play the cards
you're dealt, or improve your hand with DGT. Very easy guitar
music, solos, duets, exercises, etc. ***@openguitar.com
Mike_in_SD
2007-04-20 17:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Raleigh Arnold
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
Maybe this is too obvious, but the *most* important thing is
to bear in mind that you shouldn't try to bring bent notes
up to the volume of the other notes, but you should reduce
the volume of the other notes to the level of the bent notes.
Doing otherwise can get to be expensive. daveA
Your right ... I was having that problem with my special 20's and vest
pockets .. but my new harps, the Delta Frost and Sazuki Pro Master
are amazingly robust.

But .. you do bring a profound thought to my pea brain. That one
damn note that I cant hit cleanly (getting better though) .. anyways,
I might be smart to just not make it very loud ... grin


mike
Silk
2007-04-20 19:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike_in_SD
Post by Mike_in_SD
But .. you do bring a profound thought to my pea brain. That one
damn note that I cant hit cleanly (getting better though) .. anyways,
I might be smart to just not make it very loud ... grin<<

There's that old saying about how "it's better to be quiet and thought
of as a fool, than to speak-up and remove all doubt...." I often think of
that when I'm playing solos or vamping. Feel confident about the notes you
play, or don't play them. Nothing stands out like a bad note in a good
solo...
Silk

mike
Post by Mike_in_SD
Post by Mike_in_SD
Post by Mike_in_SD
Ok .. im the guy that really wanted to play this
www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3
the problem is .. (besides having trbl finding the right key)
was .. this is the first song that required me to hit a
double bend note and make it sound like a clean note.
here is what I am talking about .. listen to my opening of
this song .. the LAST note I play which is a double bend
3 hole and it sounds like someones dying groan ..
Maybe this is too obvious, but the *most* important thing is
to bear in mind that you shouldn't try to bring bent notes
up to the volume of the other notes, but you should reduce
the volume of the other notes to the level of the bent notes.
Doing otherwise can get to be expensive. daveA
Your right ... I was having that problem with my special 20's and vest
pockets .. but my new harps, the Delta Frost and Sazuki Pro Master
are amazingly robust.
But .. you do bring a profound thought to my pea brain. That one
damn note that I cant hit cleanly (getting better though) .. anyways,
I might be smart to just not make it very loud ... grin
mike
Robert Reynolds
2007-04-20 20:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike_in_SD
But .. you do bring a profound thought to my pea brain. That one
damn note that I cant hit cleanly (getting better though) .. anyways,
I might be smart to just not make it very loud ... grin
That reminds me of a story a friend told me years ago. He was a college
student majoring in music, specifically operatic singing. Music majors
were required to take several classes outside their musical specialty,
and the favorite class for singers was cello.

He said it was very funny to listen to 40 non-cellists playing cello all
together, because they would play most notes as quietly as possible, but
when they came to an open string the entire class would confidently play
the note at full volume. I wish I could have heard that.
Vortex
2007-04-23 14:28:23 UTC
Permalink
Wow, lot of good information given here.

Robbie has it correct in my book about timeing first and then tone. I
do some instructing and a certain type of beginner will focus on
bending and tone so much that they leave timeing lagging behind. Hard
to sound like much without good time.

I like what Silk said about keeping quiet if you cant say something
intelligent. I tell players that are considering getting on stage at a
blues jam for the first time that if they limit themselves to playing
the chops that they know by heart and avoid going out on a limb they
will sound fine. Again, a certain type of beginning player is so
focused on wanting to impress or blow people away that they will try
to play beyond their means as a harmonica player. People are more
impressed by a simple solo that is in the pocket than by someone
trying to exceed thier abilities in public.Naturally you should try to
exceed your current abilities in private.

Also a great example mentioned about that 3 draw bend that Musslewhite
uses in Cristo Redemptor. It is just on the inside edge of
acceptability as far as being on key and is very hard to play as was
stated.

I took me a long time to figure out how to really make those severe
bends sound "round".It takes a long time to make any of the notes
sound really round for that matter.

My advise is to focus on playing more harp within your current
ability rather that getting hung up on one difficult advanced
technique. The natural route is to rework difficult passages into
something manageable by a different choice of notes. Over time if you
let playing a round note with sweet tone be your secondary focus it
will fall into place while you advance in all other areas of playing
the harp.

-Vortex.
Mike_in_SD
2007-04-24 06:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vortex
My advise is to focus on playing more harp within your current
ability rather that getting hung up on one difficult advanced
technique. The natural route is to rework difficult passages into
something manageable by a different choice of notes. Over time if you
let playing a round note with sweet tone be your secondary focus it
will fall into place while you advance in all other areas of playing
the harp.
-Vortex.
hmmm I wonder if you actually listened to the lick that I had posted.

Many of the guys wondered what the big deal was and that it was
a very simple up and down the scale type thing.

And actually, I can play almost the whole thing and it sounds pretty
good ... its just that ONE bent note that was giving me a problem and
I was asking for some advice in hitting it.

Hope you dont mind If I keep trying to get that note .. cause
I'm gonna get it no matter what .. grin

Just in case we are on totally different pages .. here is the
original solo that I am trying to master .. love this thing

http://www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3


Mike
Vortex
2007-04-24 23:38:48 UTC
Permalink
No Mike, I didn't down load and listen to your track because of my
dialup connection.... it just takes too long.If I downloaded
everything posted everywhwere I go I would never finish. One of Adam
Gussows u-tube lessons takes me four hours to completely download for
example.

Sorry about my generall advice which may not apply to you. Also, I
wasn't saying not to try to master the difficult note. I just meant
that some times its better to slowly improve things like tone and the
roundness of your notes instead of devoteing all of your energy to it.
I wish I could tell you in mere words how to do it but but as you
know, it is very difficult to put into words what goes on in your
mouth with tongue position, shape of mouth, focus of the breath etc.
to even explain a bend that you have mastered.

-Vortex.
Mike_in_SD
2007-04-25 02:47:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vortex
Sorry about my generall advice which may not apply to you. Also, I
wasn't saying not to try to master the difficult note. I just meant
that some times its better to slowly improve things like tone and the
roundness of your notes instead of devoteing all of your energy to it.
-Vortex.
It actually probably is applicable to me .. I just hate to
admit it ... grin

I just came across that solo and totally fell in love with it. Its
even my ring on my cell phone. Most of it is pretty straight forward
although pretty original in my eyes. There was just this ONE note
that is like bending a note down two levels and making it sound just
like a reg note. I even had one guy say that he thought he may have
had his harp specially tuned.

And just incase anyone missed it ..

http://www.mikeamick.com/good_solo.mp3

Anyways .. no offense taken .. all you guys are great ...

thanks

Mike
Vortex
2007-04-25 15:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Sorry about the stock advise which didn't apply to you. I did not
listen to the clip because of the long download times accociated with
a dial up connection. I just think for some it is better to keep on
playing and perhaps rework solos to include the notes they can manage
to make sound "round" at the moment.

Gradually you hammer away at the tough ones. At any rate it is very
difficult to put into mere words what is done inside the mouth to get
a certain sound or effect.

-Vortex

Loading...