Discussion:
New Guy Question
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jeffb
2007-11-06 07:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Just started playing the chromatic a couple of weeks ago. The guy I’ve
been trying to get a lesson with doesn’t seem to have time for me and
I’m getting frustrated and need some advice.

I’ve been an acoustic bass player for over thirty years and have a good
idea about the music I wanna play on the harmonica but I need to figure
out how to tweak it so it plays better. I don’t seem to be able to break
in the upper register of the Chromonica 270 I have. The notes really
need to be finessed out of the harp then they stick. The thing doesn’t
seem to be very airtight and getting control of the note without playing
real hard and loud is tough. I’ve been playing a lot of long tones
working on breathing and getting a smooth, even sound but the 11th and
12th holes I just can’t get much especially drawing. I’m wide open to
suggestions on a fix for this and anything else that’ll make it play
better...even if it’s just shut up and practice more.

Also interested in opinions on other chromatics especially the Hering
9148 Opus.

Thanks folks.
jeff
RawFoodGuy
2007-11-06 10:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Just started playing the chromatic a couple of weeks ago. The guy I've
been trying to get a lesson with doesn't seem to have time for me and
I'm getting frustrated and need some advice.
I've been an acoustic bass player for over thirty years and have a good
idea about the music I wanna play on the harmonica but I need to figure
out how to tweak it so it plays better. I don't seem to be able to break
in the upper register of the Chromonica 270 I have. The notes really
need to be finessed out of the harp then they stick. The thing doesn't
seem to be very airtight and getting control of the note without playing
real hard and loud is tough. I've been playing a lot of long tones
working on breathing and getting a smooth, even sound but the 11th and
12th holes I just can't get much especially drawing. I'm wide open to
suggestions on a fix for this and anything else that'll make it play
better...even if it's just shut up and practice more.
Also interested in opinions on other chromatics especially the Hering
9148 Opus.
Thanks folks.
jeff
Hi,

I don't play chromatic myself, but there are a lot of great chromatic
players on the forums at bushmanmusic.com - great guys! That forum is
a lot more active than this group and I think you will get lots of
great guidance.

- Robert
jeffb
2007-11-06 16:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by RawFoodGuy
Hi,
I don't play chromatic myself, but there are a lot of great chromatic
players on the forums at bushmanmusic.com - great guys! That forum is
a lot more active than this group and I think you will get lots of
great guidance.
- Robert
Thanks!
Alexander Mcleod
2007-11-06 17:46:29 UTC
Permalink
You might try the slidemeister group, too. It is all chromatic.
Sandy
Just started playing the chromatic a couple of weeks ago. The guy I’ve
been trying to get a lesson with doesn’t seem to have time for me and I’m
getting frustrated and need some advice.
I’ve been an acoustic bass player for over thirty years and have a good
idea about the music I wanna play on the harmonica but I need to figure
out how to tweak it so it plays better. I don’t seem to be able to break
in the upper register of the Chromonica 270 I have. The notes really need
to be finessed out of the harp then they stick. The thing doesn’t seem to
be very airtight and getting control of the note without playing real hard
and loud is tough. I’ve been playing a lot of long tones working on
breathing and getting a smooth, even sound but the 11th and 12th holes I
just can’t get much especially drawing. I’m wide open to suggestions on a
fix for this and anything else that’ll make it play better...even if it’s
just shut up and practice more.
Also interested in opinions on other chromatics especially the Hering 9148
Opus.
Thanks folks.
jeff
j***@hotmail.com
2007-11-07 12:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Mcleod
You might try the slidemeister group, too. It is all chromatic.
Sandy
Just started playing the chromatic a couple of weeks ago. The guy I've
been trying to get a lesson with doesn't seem to have time for me and I'm
getting frustrated and need some advice.
I've been an acoustic bass player for over thirty years and have a good
idea about the music I wanna play on the harmonica but I need to figure
out how to tweak it so it plays better. I don't seem to be able to break
in the upper register of the Chromonica 270 I have. The notes really need
to be finessed out of the harp then they stick. The thing doesn't seem to
be very airtight and getting control of the note without playing real hard
and loud is tough. I've been playing a lot of long tones working on
breathing and getting a smooth, even sound but the 11th and 12th holes I
just can't get much especially drawing. I'm wide open to suggestions on a
fix for this and anything else that'll make it play better...even if it's
just shut up and practice more.
Also interested in opinions on other chromatics especially the Hering 9148
Opus.
Thanks folks.
jeff
jeff, chromatic is much different than diatonic in a couple of
respects:
1) the chromatic is laid out with all the notes available without
bending,
2) 99% of chros have windsavers or valves, which greatly inhibit
bending notes and restrict hard playing!

any harp can be "locked up- that is a note stalled out due to too much
air going through the reed slot. it's typical with beginners that
they try "too hard" to get a note to sound! beleive me it's an easy
mistake to make!

now with a diatonic-garden variety 10 hole harp- bending is how one
gets some of the notes of the scale. so bending there is important.
the chromatic, the opposite is true since there is a complete set of
notes available that are flatted already, just by pressing the lever
or "button" on the right end of the harmonica.

too much air through a chromatic will lead to wrecked reeds! this can
be costly believe me, and can render a good harmonica into a pretty
paperweight. i play hering 48's and a reed plate/comb assy costs
about $70 with shipping if you can get one! better to learn now, to
use the absolute least amount of breath force to make it sound.
sacrifice volume, but save the reeds!

another way to get a good experience imho, is to learn third position
playing and use it for the chro. this is what jazz and blues players
use to get the lonely and very hip sounds you hear from guys like
william clarke, howard levy, toots thielmann. i use the chromatics i
have for either first- which is blow notes in the root key of the
song, or in third, which is a few steps away on the scale. there are
guys who are much better at explaining the basics of third position
and chromatic in general at the joints mentioned above.the big
advantyage of third position playing esp on a chromatic, is that the
whole harmonica is available with no bending, or even using the slide
in most cases, and all the notes i want are pretty much there.

the other big thing i've learned and use a lot is, tongue block for
getting octaves or chords. this involves covering 4 or 5 holes with
the mouth and making a seal with the lips, and blocking the middle
holes with the tongue. then drawing and blowing will give a much
fuller sound. not much more volume but FULLER! it's useful for the
high end of the harmonica. not to mention how big a sound you get
over all. james cotton and carey bell and william clarke are/were 3
big influences on my playing this way.

if you've ever had any sort of voice or breathing coaching, you know
about the "air column and how to access it inside yourself. if not,
i'd recommend it. a relaxed diaphragm, breathing from deep inside,
and using the absolute minimum volume of air, and learning to control
that air, is key to good playing on any harp imho.

the volume issue for me is solved by amplification. note: even then i
have to be careful who i play with since i tend to try to play harder
if the band or my partner gets too loud, and oops! there went a
reed! so sound reinforcement is a goiod idea unless you plan to play
strictly solo or you have a partner on guitar who is past the whole
"louder is better" thing we see a lot of these days. i play on the
street weather permitting with my acoustic partner, and i also hit
open mic nights a lot and jam with total strangers through the p.a. i
do have a pretty good amp/mic combo for stand-alone amped playing and
a nice warm amped tone, but the primary source of tone is inside each
of us. it comes with time and practice, and is another big reason to
learn wind control.

i do suggest hitting slidemeister and harptalk(yahoo), and finding
barbecue bob's posts. he's stern buit 99.99% correct in his counsel.

take your time and relax, this is a great journey you've started on!
jeffb
2007-11-07 16:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
jeff, chromatic is much different than diatonic in a couple of
SNIP

Thanks for taking the time to post this. Incredibly helpful top to
bottom...where you didn't inform you confirmed what I already knew.

Thanks to everyone. I'm checking all the forums suggested.
Chromatonic
2007-11-07 20:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Welcome to the Chromatic! It's everything the diatonic ain't -
including easy to play! ;-)

Try tongue-blocking - I get way better response out of my Chro on the
high octave when I TB, even for single notes.
Also, breathe easy. Don't try to force it. Volume comes from
projecting the notes like a singer does, not from blowing hard. Also,
you CAN bend every note on a reasonably airtight chrom, to good
effect. Bill Barrett ( www.billbarrett.net ) can bend every note on
the instrument 3 semitones! I've heard it. Valved bends are arguably
as hard as overblows to master. But even the little 'semi-bends' can
add a ton of expression to the notes you're playing (like Toots or
Stevie Wonder). Also you could strategically remove a couple of valves
(windsavers) as Clarke is rumored to have done in order to facilitate
bending on key notes. Better have a bloody tight instrument for that!

What would be called 3rd position on a diatonic is definitely the best
way to go for a traditional minor blues 'West Coast' sound, but 1st
and 2nd are really groovy, too, and then of course you can push the
button in...that would give you (using a 16-hole chro) Dm, Ebm, C, C#,
G & F. If you want to expand beyond that (and outside the West Coast
Blues Chromatic tradition), work on learning Minor Pentatonics - only
3 slide/breath patterns gives you a LOT more keys on one Chrom. Check
out Winslow Yerxa's articles in Hohner's Easy Reeder.

For learning, Chro, get a GOOD QUALITY instrument like a Hohner Super
64. They're not too expensive, very comfortable (Silver-plated
mouthpiece), nice action, reasonably airtight, durable, and they don't
have a wooden comb or a cheese-grater for a mouthpiece like the 270.
ALL blues chrom players use a 16-hole chro for most of what they do.
Also, if you decide to pursue Jazz on the instrument, you'll want a 4-
octave instrument.

For a 12-hole instrument, I've heard real good things about Herings
(NOT the Opus), but I prefer the CX-12...super tight, crazy volume and
wicked tone, real easy maintenance. The upper end is finicky (but
totally playable with a TB embouchure). If you blow through Diatonics
fast though, you're gonna blow a CX-12 out of tune pretty quick, and
having one re-tuned & replacing the cracked reeds is EXPENSIVE. I
don't blow oput harps very quickly even though I gig in 4 bands and
play every day. I've been playing most of my harps for more than a
year (chrms over 2 years).

Finally, maintain your instrument. Much harder to do with a
traditional-design chrom, you need to gap your reeds initially and
clean (and/or replace) your windsavers periodically.

M
2007-11-07 19:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Hello jawbone60,

thanks for your valuable post (especially the last part). In the first
part, however, some statements seem to disagree with experiences I have
with chromatics.
Post by j***@hotmail.com
8<
2) 99% of chros have windsavers or valves, which greatly inhibit
bending notes
On the contrary: windsavers enable bending on every single note of a
chromatic. The kind of bend you get is different from the one you get on
diatonics, and the technique is slightly different.
Post by j***@hotmail.com
and restrict hard playing!
In my experience windsavers do not restrict hard playing. Incorrect
gapping however does (as is the case with diatonics).
Post by j***@hotmail.com
8<
now with a diatonic-garden variety 10 hole harp- bending is how one
gets some of the notes of the scale. so bending there is important.
the chromatic, the opposite is true since there is a complete set of
notes available that are flatted already, just by pressing the lever
or "button" on the right end of the harmonica.
... but it isn't forbidden to use bends either :)
Post by j***@hotmail.com
too much air through a chromatic will lead to wrecked reeds! this can
Just as it does with diatonics?
Post by j***@hotmail.com
be costly believe me, and can render a good harmonica into a pretty
paperweight. i play hering 48's and a reed plate/comb assy costs
about $70 with shipping if you can get one! better to learn now, to
You can retune or - if they're beyond rescuing - replace reeds for far
less than $70.
As an aside: Herings appear to use a softer material for tongues than
most of its competitors do (most noticeably Suzuki, but Hohner or Seydel
too). Anyway, they're known to go out of tune faster (/are more prone to
get "wrecked").
Post by j***@hotmail.com
use the absolute least amount of breath force to make it sound.
sacrifice volume, but save the reeds!
another way to get a good experience imho, is to learn third position
--- 8< ---
--- all kinds of good and valuable stuff on chromatic harmonica playing
--- 8< ---
take your time and relax, this is a great journey you've started on!
Amen


M
M
2007-11-07 19:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeffb
Just started playing the chromatic a couple of weeks ago.
8<
I don’t seem to be able to break
in the upper register of the Chromonica 270 I have. The notes really
need to be finessed out of the harp then they stick. The thing doesn’t
seem to be very airtight and getting control of the note without playing
real hard and loud is tough. I’ve been playing a lot of long tones
The squeakies can be hard to do at first. BUT I don't believe it's you,
but it's the harmonica; you might want to check and/ or adjust the
gapping (from what you tell the gap might be too narrow). Check out
http://www.chmel.at/werkstatt/w06chrom_eng.html
Post by jeffb
working on breathing and getting a smooth, even sound but the 11th and
12th holes I just can’t get much especially drawing. I’m wide open to
suggestions on a fix for this and anything else that’ll make it play
better...even if it’s just shut up and practice more.
Also interested in opinions on other chromatics especially the Hering
9148 Opus.
Thanks folks.
jeff
Cheers,

M

(P.S. did someone suggest to check out slidemeister.com already? :D :D)
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