Tweed Deluxe for harp

[harpbreath]

I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe "tweedy"
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Robbie and Laura Reynolds]

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe "tweedy"
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.

I don't know how accurately my clone amp compares to the original 5D3
deluxe, so take this for whatever you think it's worth, but on paper it
is the same amp...

My CM microphone will overdrive the Bassman clone and the little single
ended 8 watt amp, but no such luck with the Deluxe. Judging from what
I've learned about how tubes work, I think that this has something to do
with the bias setting on the power output tubes. This is a cathode
biased amp, which means that it would be easy enough to change the bias
by changing to a different cathode resistor on the 6V6s. I would like
to try that, just to see if it's possible to get some overdrive. So far
the only way I've been able to overdrive the Deluxe is with a
Stratocaster turned up all the way. The guitar sounds really good, by
the way, but Chicago blues harp is a big disappointment with this amp.

Of my three homebuilt amps, the best bet for Chicago blues is the
Frankensteined Kalamazoo-type thing, which I plan to build another
version of with different preamp tubes, to install in the big 2X10
cabinet that the modified Bassman clone now occupies. I stuck the
chassis through the hole in the back of the cabinet and plugged it into
the speakers, and WOW, what a sound! It's even better than the modified
Bassman-thing. The only problem with the little amp is that the stock
tone control sucks. I'm a big Chicago blues fan, and to give you an
idea of how much I like the Deluxe design, rather than try to fix it
I'll most likely cannibalize it to build another single ended
Frankenstein amp.

[Silk]

Jeffo,
My Guitar player has a narrow panel tweed Deluxe and plays it out
sometimes, but as nice a shape as it's in, it doesn't sound as good for harp
as the Blues Jr. he has with a 10" Weber in it. The Deluxe is a squealy
little amp with not much headroom and the 12" Jensen that came with it
sounds good for guitar, but really "flat" for harp. Anyway, for what it's
worth, when we recorded, I had my choice of several classic tweed and early
Fender amps. I also had one of my Harpkings and several other small amps
(including a stock Blues Jr.) I ended up using his BJ with the 10" Weber
mod and got a great sound compared to everything else. The Deluxe came in
way down the list for me.... But you know how these things go, what works
for you, once belonged to me and vice-versa...I do think that a stock Tweed
Deluxe is not configured well for harp, or we would have seen a lot more of
them on stage over the years, don't you? Later...
"Sick Silk the
Slobbering"

Post by Robbie and Laura Reynolds

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe "tweedy"
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.

I don't know how accurately my clone amp compares to the original 5D3
deluxe, so take this for whatever you think it's worth, but on paper it
is the same amp...
My CM microphone will overdrive the Bassman clone and the little single
ended 8 watt amp, but no such luck with the Deluxe. Judging from what
I've learned about how tubes work, I think that this has something to do
with the bias setting on the power output tubes. This is a cathode
biased amp, which means that it would be easy enough to change the bias
by changing to a different cathode resistor on the 6V6s. I would like
to try that, just to see if it's possible to get some overdrive. So far
the only way I've been able to overdrive the Deluxe is with a
Stratocaster turned up all the way. The guitar sounds really good, by
the way, but Chicago blues harp is a big disappointment with this amp.
Of my three homebuilt amps, the best bet for Chicago blues is the
Frankensteined Kalamazoo-type thing, which I plan to build another
version of with different preamp tubes, to install in the big 2X10
cabinet that the modified Bassman clone now occupies. I stuck the
chassis through the hole in the back of the cabinet and plugged it into
the speakers, and WOW, what a sound! It's even better than the modified
Bassman-thing. The only problem with the little amp is that the stock
tone control sucks. I'm a big Chicago blues fan, and to give you an
idea of how much I like the Deluxe design, rather than try to fix it
I'll most likely cannibalize it to build another single ended
Frankenstein amp.

[harpbreath]

Hey thanks you guys...that's exactly what I wanted to know. Strong
confirmation of a sort of hunch, and god knows it's good to take that
one off my "live-long-enough-I'll-own-one" list.

Silk you sniffling apology, you gonna spend New Year's Eve that way?
Gotta get out and try your new acquisition I would think, just double
up on the Nyquil and go home at 12:05. Anyway, hope you feel better
SOON, and Robbie.....Happy New Year to you too. You playing?
This year my main guys didn't get a good enough job offer so rented a
hall and invited every other out of work player we know to bring some
bean dip and come over to play in the year (about 100 people all told).
So guess what? Yesterday get TWO calls to gig per cancellations,
whatta world! We advised the 2nd one to rent a karaoke machine and
call us earlier next year (hehehe). Drive careful, everyone, and be
safe.
Jeffo

[R]

I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp. It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage), but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven, then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well. It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the 5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it does
this very well on both harp & guitar.

I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me, not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, & these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe "tweedy"
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Robbie and Laura Reynolds]

How is the feedback on your amp? Is it manageable? The one I built was
a 5D3, and from all the talk that I have read on the net, the 5E3
appears to be the most popular model. Looking at the schematics, there
are a few minor differences. I have been interested in copying the 5B3,
just to see what it's like. They all shared the same transformers and
output tubes, so I can see what you mean about the low volume. Mine has
the same problem.

Post by R
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp. It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage), but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven, then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well. It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the 5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it does
this very well on both harp & guitar.
I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me, not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, & these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe "tweedy"
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[R]

It certainly feeds back. But you use whatever usual tricks you can,
pointing mics this way & that. On the other hand, it's really not very
loud, so in a way, feedback doesn't happen as much. I always fantasized
that I could use it as a monitor for myself & otherwise mic it over the pa.
But I've never played at anything bigger than a little club, & that seemed
unlikely there. Also, they're somewhat scuzzy places, so I never took it
out: it's too valuable to me (e.g., the grillecloth is very fragile &
already has a few rips; not to mention fear of theft or other damage). But
anyway, it does have a very primitive sound that I like a lot for this kind
of music. My understanding is that the later models have a more refined
sound & also start entering Neil Young territory (I've heard that a 5E3 is
the basis of his sound).

Post by Robbie and Laura Reynolds
How is the feedback on your amp? Is it manageable? The one I built was
a 5D3, and from all the talk that I have read on the net, the 5E3
appears to be the most popular model. Looking at the schematics, there
are a few minor differences. I have been interested in copying the 5B3,
just to see what it's like. They all shared the same transformers and
output tubes, so I can see what you mean about the low volume. Mine has
the same problem.

Post by R
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp. It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage), but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven, then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well. It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the 5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it does
this very well on both harp & guitar.
I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me, not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, & these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe "tweedy"
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Jeffo]

5B3, huh? That's great to know, thanks. I know they were certainly
different ainals back in '52 but I've never been lucky enough to try
one from that era. Hey, tell me about the Holmes preamp. First, does
he have a website? I have a couple of really promising amps that are
just a little too trebly but close...'63 Gibson Falcon espec....would
love to find a good way to shift the tonal range down without any
circuitry mods or expensive speaker searches. How much $$$ and what
does it do for you? I've had a SF Vibrolux and it too needed a little
help in the (crunch and) bass dept., so that's encouraging.
Jeffo

[R]

I wrote longish reviews of them a year or two ago on the Coast to Coast
site, which sells them:
http://coast2coastmusic.com/cgi-bin/cart/HETC
and
http://coast2coastmusic.com/cgi-bin/cart/HEHC-US

Ron Holmes' site is http://www.holmeseng.com/

Some people in this newsgroup gave me grief for being so positive about the
preamps, but I did/do like them. What can I say? They're not magic & they
cost $300-400, but I like them. They definitely let you shift the tonal
range from more trebly/guitar to more bassy/harp. They brought two of my
amps into a good tonal range for harp, and made them very versatile, so I
could use them for several instruments (harp, electric guitar, acoustic
guitar). And they got rid of the brittleness/harshness of the Blues Junior,
which wasn't really a problem with guitar, but was for harp.

Post by Jeffo
5B3, huh? That's great to know, thanks. I know they were certainly
different ainals back in '52 but I've never been lucky enough to try
one from that era. Hey, tell me about the Holmes preamp. First, does
he have a website? I have a couple of really promising amps that are
just a little too trebly but close...'63 Gibson Falcon espec....would
love to find a good way to shift the tonal range down without any
circuitry mods or expensive speaker searches. How much $$$ and what
does it do for you? I've had a SF Vibrolux and it too needed a little
help in the (crunch and) bass dept., so that's encouraging.
Jeffo

[Jeffo]

Right on.....thanks. I just read your reviews, very good. It actually
sounds like the ticket and the PA capability would be great as well.
Incidentally, I agree with you about the Blues Jr. and sold mine after
owning it several years just because of the tonal characterisic you
describe. I had gone so far as to swap speaker out (as well as tubes
right away), interesting that the HC solves it.
Jeffo

[Keith Adams]

Jeff I see that you dont want to do any circuit modifications but the
very easy(and cheap) way to get the results you want is to simply
replace the caps on your bass and treble pots to .1 micro farads.
Right now they're probably.022 or .047.By doing this you'll pass the
high frequencies to ground.I'm sure that the Holmes stuff is good and
theres alot of uses for them so the different caps are just a less
expensive alternative.

"R" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:NODGd.18852$c%***@okepread05...
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage),
but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven,
then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it
also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for
me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the
5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The
sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it
does
this very well on both harp & guitar.

I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me,
not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, &
these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other
posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Robbie and Laura Reynolds]

For a very enlightening explanation of tone controls, look here:
http://amps.zugster.net/articles/tonestacks/

Also, there is a nifty program called Tone Stack Calculator that shows
you graphs of what the tone controls are doing to different frequencies
in your signal. Look on Google, or go to Duncan's amp page, also easily
found on Google. I just got finished wiring the Baxandall two knob
control into my test chassis. I'll let you know how it works.

As far as changing capacitors goes, when you hear about switching over
to .1 caps, it's the coupling caps. The capacitors on the tone controls
are matched to the value of the potentiometer, and if you change them
they won't match any more. And they are all wired differently. The old
Bassmans had a single .1 capacitor and a 1 meg pot, but the Deluxe has a
.00047 cap on one side of the pot and something else on the other side.

Post by Keith Adams
Jeff I see that you dont want to do any circuit modifications but the
very easy(and cheap) way to get the results you want is to simply
replace the caps on your bass and treble pots to .1 micro farads.
Right now they're probably.022 or .047.By doing this you'll pass the
high frequencies to ground.I'm sure that the Holmes stuff is good and
theres alot of uses for them so the different caps are just a less
expensive alternative.
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage), but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven, then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the 5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it does
this very well on both harp & guitar.
I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me, not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, & these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one,

what

Post by harpbreath
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that

he'd

Post by harpbreath
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no

matter

Post by harpbreath
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the

edges,

Post by harpbreath
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Jeffo]

Keith, funny you say that because I just had some stuff similar to that
done on my '68SF Princeton and the Falcon is going to get some minor
mods tommorrow to range the whole amp down and eliminate some highs.
With that minor work the Princeton became my favorite harp amp of all
time overnight! So I am going the way you describe, if not exactly,
although the HC sounds really interesting to me for some future
performing applications where hauling an amp on stage will be sort of
innapropriate. I may get one just for that but then try it with
everything just to see what it does.... I don't doubt I have things it
would improve.
Jeffo

[Keith Adams]

I dont know who told you that you have to match pots and caps but its
ridiculous. I know you should also change the coupling caps but also
knew that since Jeff didnt want to get into circuit mods that he
wouldnt even consider it. I was hoping the caps on the pots would cut
it. I most generally change every one of the filthy little
motherfuckers to .1 that I can get to easily. I done read about the
Baxandall tone stack several years back. Same with the tone calculator.
They're basically for people who need tabs to play a song and figure
out when to clip their toe nails
with the old slide rule theory.

"R" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:NODGd.18852$c%***@okepread05...
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage),
but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven,
then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it
also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for
me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the
5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The
sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it
does
this very well on both harp & guitar.

I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me,
not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, &
these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other
posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Robbie and Laura Reynolds]

So maybe you can tell me why they bother to make pots and caps of
different values. I'm sure that doing it your way would be much easier.

Post by Keith Adams
I dont know who told you that you have to match pots and caps but its
ridiculous. I know you should also change the coupling caps but also
knew that since Jeff didnt want to get into circuit mods that he
wouldnt even consider it. I was hoping the caps on the pots would cut
it. I most generally change every one of the filthy little
motherfuckers to .1 that I can get to easily. I done read about the
Baxandall tone stack several years back. Same with the tone calculator.
They're basically for people who need tabs to play a song and figure
out when to clip their toe nails
with the old slide rule theory.
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage), but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven, then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the 5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it does
this very well on both harp & guitar.
I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me, not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, & these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one,

what

Post by harpbreath
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that

he'd

Post by harpbreath
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no

matter

Post by harpbreath
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the

edges,

Post by harpbreath
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Keith Adams]

It is alot easier and fool proof Robbie.I doubt if you'd like to do it
my way because there isnt any formulas to work out and it leaves you
feeling sorta unfullfilled because of its simplicity. Its called using
your ear. I seem to recall though that when I was in my early 30's I
had troubles with this method because I didnt hear anything except what
I wanted to. Just Jiving you Robbie. My stiff necked ass doesnt have
any room to talk or berate anyone for anything.I do wish you'd stop
fucking around and listen to me on this though. 6V6's are nice
sounding tubes as are EL84'S. 5881's are fine 6L6's so so. 6551's too
clean 5791's are great but too rare.IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A KILLER HARP
AMP use an EL34 single ended.12AT or U7 for preamps with a master
volume right in front of the power tubes. Around 25 watts. If you want
60 watts use two EL34's in push pull.I'd do it myself but to be quite
honest I'm not as good at amp building as you Fuck stain.
Now get on it. We here expect it done by about this time Friday. Get
over it and get to work cause the clocks ticking.

"R" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:NODGd.18852$c%***@okepread05...
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage),
but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven,
then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it
also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for
me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the
5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The
sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it
does
this very well on both harp & guitar.

I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me,
not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, &
these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other
posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Silk]

The "clever banter" was a hoot, anyway....I don't understand this
capacitor talk.... Adams, have you ever played through an amp with two 6551
( aka, KT-88) tubes in the power section? Man, I tell you....it will peel
paint and kill mosquitoes! I think the old Ampeg SVT Bass heads had 6551's
in them....
Silk

Although the clever banter is so much fun, I'm more interested in what
you are saying about capacitors.
Are you saying that you take out any capacitor you find in an amplifier
(except the power supply filters) and replace it with a .1 uF,
regardless of where it is or what the original value is?

Post by Keith Adams
It is alot easier and fool proof Robbie.I doubt if you'd like to do it
my way because there isnt any formulas to work out and it leaves you
feeling sorta unfullfilled because of its simplicity. Its called using
your ear. I seem to recall though that when I was in my early 30's I
had troubles with this method because I didnt hear anything except what
I wanted to. Just Jiving you Robbie. My stiff necked ass doesnt have
any room to talk or berate anyone for anything.I do wish you'd stop
fucking around and listen to me on this though. 6V6's are nice
sounding tubes as are EL84'S. 5881's are fine 6L6's so so. 6551's too
clean 5791's are great but too rare.IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A KILLER HARP
AMP use an EL34 single ended.12AT or U7 for preamps with a master
volume right in front of the power tubes. Around 25 watts. If you want
60 watts use two EL34's in push pull.I'd do it myself but to be quite
honest I'm not as good at amp building as you Fuck stain.
Now get on it. We here expect it done by about this time Friday. Get
over it and get to work cause the clocks ticking.
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage), but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven, then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the 5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it does
this very well on both harp & guitar.
I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me, not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, & these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one,

what

Post by harpbreath
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that

he'd

Post by harpbreath
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no

matter

Post by harpbreath
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the

edges,

Post by harpbreath
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Keith Adams]

I dont make a practice of it but I've taken out any small value caps
that I could reach easily under .1 and replaced them.I didnt care what
the results were because I only paid $100 for the amp and I had the
caps sitting there.Just got lucky I guess but the amp sounded so much
better that you wouldnt even recognize it to be the same amp.
And that was for guitar or harp.Building or working on amplifiers isnt
brain surgery. If you build an amp like I described your quest for the
best harp amp will be over. The first Marshall amps were Fender
Bassman clones, Why do you think they sounded so much better?Different
power tubes. Fender is known for their clean ,chimey Bell tones and
not overdriven sounds.What you're after is in the power tubes not
preamp.

"Robbie and Laura Reynolds" <***@kcnet.com> wrote in message news:***@kcnet.com...
Although the clever banter is so much fun, I'm more interested in what
you are saying about capacitors.
Are you saying that you take out any capacitor you find in an amplifier
(except the power supply filters) and replace it with a .1 uF,
regardless of where it is or what the original value is?

Post by Keith Adams
It is alot easier and fool proof Robbie.I doubt if you'd like to do it
my way because there isnt any formulas to work out and it leaves you
feeling sorta unfullfilled because of its simplicity. Its called using
your ear. I seem to recall though that when I was in my early 30's I
had troubles with this method because I didnt hear anything except what
I wanted to. Just Jiving you Robbie. My stiff necked ass doesnt have
any room to talk or berate anyone for anything.I do wish you'd stop
fucking around and listen to me on this though. 6V6's are nice
sounding tubes as are EL84'S. 5881's are fine 6L6's so so. 6551's

too

Post by Keith Adams
clean 5791's are great but too rare.IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A KILLER HARP
AMP use an EL34 single ended.12AT or U7 for preamps with a master
volume right in front of the power tubes. Around 25 watts. If you want
60 watts use two EL34's in push pull.I'd do it myself but to be quite
honest I'm not as good at amp building as you Fuck stain.
Now get on it. We here expect it done by about this time Friday. Get
over it and get to work cause the clocks ticking.
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage), but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven, then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the
5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it
does
this very well on both harp & guitar.
I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me, not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, & these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one,

what

Post by harpbreath
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that

he'd

Post by harpbreath
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no

matter

Post by harpbreath
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the

edges,

Post by harpbreath
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Keith Adams]

Yeah I have Silk. Power out the wazoo but you cant get them to
overdrive. They were designed not to. They were first made for
aircraft and millitary radios where they wanted the most volume with
the least distortion.They also were used by Fender in their 6 power
tube bass amps. The fucking things weighed a ton and had an ungodly
amount of volume. You dont want a bass amp to distort now do you?

"R" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:NODGd.18852$c%***@okepread05...
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage),
but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven,
then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it
also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for
me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the
5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The
sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it
does
this very well on both harp & guitar.

I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me,
not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, &
these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other
posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Keith Adams]

PS.
Its obvious to me that you two fellers have never played through an amp
with EL34 power tubes or you'd agree with me.I've got a 130 watt Music
Man with a SS preamp and its got the nicest ,smoothest overdrive that
I've ever heard.All the reviews that I've read on this amp say its only
good for clean playing.Not this one that I've got. Mine is one of the
first made that has a 12AX7 phase inverter. Maybe the overdrive is
there because I'm using a 12AU7 instead?It sho am sweet though.

"R" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:NODGd.18852$c%***@okepread05...
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage),
but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven,
then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it
also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for
me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the
5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The
sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it
does
this very well on both harp & guitar.

I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me,
not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, &
these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other
posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo

[Silk]

...Just back from TJ and sorry to hear that I was missed...Those Tijuana
girls are just a bit too enticing for me to stay away more than a day or
two. It's only about a 40 minute drive and I can be in the land of
"tequila, cheap sandals and kidnapped Americans"....
As far as KT-88's and KT-90's not overdriving??? Yeah they will, but
you gotta have them set up right to do so. The Harpking is an interesting
tube set up. Two KT-88's in my 4x10's for the power section and three
12-AX7's down the line. They overdrive like crazy at high or low volumes,
even though none of those tubes are supposed to be great for harp. There is
some kinda voodoo that John Kinder does that makes the tubes run real "cold"
in the Harpkings. I'm not sure I know what that means, but I tried tube
swaps when I first bought one of his amps and it wasn't a good thing at
all....I went right back to using what he suggested and installed. I can
say that if you want to buy some really great KT-88's or KT-90's that the
"JJ's-Tesla" tubes are good sounding and dependable (also, you can buy them
with red or blue glass). That power section gives me about 70 watts in the
4x10 amps and "crunches" up and down the range of volume. I think that if
you apply the right formulas to these tubes you can get them to do what you
ask of them. Of course, I'm just a plumber and don't know shit about tubes
or fancy electronics. I just turn the amp on and plug in my rig,...from
then on, it's up to the "harp gods" to keep me rolling.
Silk

Post by Keith Adams
PS.
Its obvious to me that you two fellers have never played through an amp
with EL34 power tubes or you'd agree with me.I've got a 130 watt Music
Man with a SS preamp and its got the nicest ,smoothest overdrive that
I've ever heard.All the reviews that I've read on this amp say its only
good for clean playing.Not this one that I've got. Mine is one of the
first made that has a 12AX7 phase inverter. Maybe the overdrive is
there because I'm using a 12AU7 instead?It sho am sweet though.

[Keith Adams]

Like in the personal note Silk. Same pin outs with different operating
characteristics.Swappable but not the same tube.


"R" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:NODGd.18852$c%***@okepread05...
I have a '52 tweed deluxe & like it very much for Chicago-style harp.
It
has a replacement Jensen speaker (to save the original from damage),
but is
otherwise close to stock. It has a pretty tone till it's overdriven,
then
it's got very nice distortion. You can adjust the tone pretty well.
It
doesn't have much volume for playing in public. I should add that it
also
sounds very good for slide guitar. The amp tech who worked on it for
me (he
knows his old Fenders) said it was a fairly primitive circuit (it's the
5B3)
& sounds different from some of the later model tweed deluxes. The
sound I
had in mind that I wanted was early 50s Chess recordings style, and it
does
this very well on both harp & guitar.

I also have a '59 reissue bassman, an old '65 vibrolux reverb, and a
recent-model blues junior. The bassman sounds very good, tho to me,
not
quite as good as the tweed deluxe; but it has enough volume to be more
usable. The VR is fairly trebly, but I use Ron Holmes' preamps, &
these
make the VR quite usable. I find the BJ to have kind of harsh
overtones.
Again, the Holmes preamps can tame that. But the tweed deluxe has my
favorite tone, tho it's not loud. As you can see from the other
posters,
your mileage may vary ... :o} .

Post by harpbreath
I'm curious just how good Fender tweed Deluxes (NOT the modern tweed
Blues Deluxe) really are for bluesharp, Chicago-style, compared to
other tweed models from the 50's. Do any of you play through one, what
year, and what tweaks if any? I heard a good player say once that he'd
sold his to a guitar player as it wasn't as good a tone for harp as
other things, and I've played a silverface '74 Deluxe enough to know
it's just awful for harp with a very shrill and trebly tone, no matter
what mic. Robbie, you've built a clone, how did it turn out? I know
you're loving that '55 Bassman circuit now but was the Deluxe

"tweedy"

Post by harpbreath
enough? I seem to recall a desire on your part to round out the edges,
so to speak.
Jeffo